Update: 2015-12-09 04:18 AM -0500



Chapter 33


T.W. Rhys Davids and Herman Oldenberg, translated from the Pali, Part III, The Kullavagga , iv-xiii, Sacred Books of the East, Vol. 20., 1885 , http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/sbe20/index.htm 140324
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/sbe20/sbe20048.htm 140324

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UKT's captions
Pix on right:
1. {su-La.wag~ga.}-Pali, the Sixth Buddhist Synod version in Pal-Myan
2. Chinese Indologist Chi Hisen-lin (1911-2009) who wrote
§ Language problem of primitive Buddhism - lang-probl.htm - link chk 151209
He refers to {su-La.wag~ga.} in connection with Offence#1 given below.

Chapter 33 :
Offence#1. On use of Sanskrit to codify conduct rules
Offence#2. On Cavaka doctrine
Offence#3. On verbal pleasantries

Rhys-Davids & Oldenberg footnotes

UKT notes :

Note to myself 140330: I intend to save the following in a separate file in Lang-Religion:
SN 4.13 . PTS: S i 110  CDB i 203 . Sakalika Sutta: The Stone Sliver
- translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu © 1999
- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn04/sn04.013.than.html
It is included in Samyutta Nikaya - SN 1 - Cullavagga VII

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Chapter 33.

Offence #1 On use of Sanskrit to codify conduct rules (UKT: caption)

(p.149 cont)
1. Now at that time there were two brothers, Bhikkhus, by name Yamelu and Tekula 3, Br‚hmans (p149end-p150begin) by birth, excelling in speech, excelling in pronunciation. These went up to the place where the Blessed One was, and when they had come there, they saluted the Blessed One, and took their seats on one side. And so sitting those Bhikkhus spake to the Blessed One thus:

'At the present time, Lord, Bhikkhus, differing in name, differing in lineage, differing in birth, differing in family, have gone forth (from the world). These corrupt the word of the Buddhas by (repeating it in) their own dialect. Let us, Lord, put the word of the Buddhas into (Sanskrit) verse 1.' fn150:1

'How can you, O foolish ones, speak thus, saying, "Let us, Lord, put the word of the Buddhas into verse?" This will not conduce, O foolish ones, either to the conversion of the unconverted, or to the increase of the converted; but rather to those who have not been converted being not converted, and to the turning back of those who have been converted.'

And when the Blessed One had rebuked those Bhikkhus, and had delivered a religious discourse 2, he addressed the Bhikkhus, and said: (p150end-p151begin)

'You are not, O Bhikkhus, to put the word of the Buddhas into (Sanskrit) verse. Whosoever does so, shall be guilty of a dukkata. I allow you, O Bhikkhus, to learn the word of the Buddhas each in his own dialect 1.

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Offence #2 : On Cavaka doctrine

2. Now at that time the Khabbaggiya Bhikkhus {hsŻb~b~g~gi} learnt the Lok‚yata system 2.

Pal: {hsŻb~bag~gi} - UTM-PDMD066
UKT from UTM: the six renegade Buddhist monks during the lifetime of the Buddha.

UKT: See my note on Lokayata-note-

People murmured, &c., saying, 'Like those who still enjoy the pleasures of the world!'

The Bhikkhus heard of the people thus murmuring; and those Bhikkhus told the matter to the Blessed One.

'Now can a man who holds the Lok‚yata as valuable reach up, O Bhikkhus, to the full advantage of, or attain to full growth in, to full breadth in this doctrine and discipline 3?'

'This cannot be, Lord.'

'Or can a man who holds this doctrine and discipline to be valuable learn the Lok‚yata system?'

'This cannot be, Lord.'

'You are not, O Bhikkhus, to learn the Lok‚yata system. Whosoever does so, shall be guilty of a dukkata.'

Now at that time the Khabbaggiya Bhikkhus taught the Lok‚yata system.

People murmured, &c., saying, 'Like those still enjoying the pleasures of the world!'

They told this matter to the Blessed One.

'You are not, O Bhikkhus, to teach the Lok‚yata system. Whosoever does so, shall be guilty of a dukkata.'

[Similar paragraphs to the last, ending]

'You are not, O Bhikkhus, to learn--to teach--the low arts 1 (of divination, spells, omens, astrology, sacrifices to gods, witchcraft, and quackery).'

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Offence #3 : On verbal pleasantries

3. Now at that time the Blessed One when, surrounded by a great assembly, he was preaching the Dhamma, sneezed. The Bhikkhus raised a great and mighty shout, 'Long life to our Lord the Blessed One! Long life to the Happy One!' and by the sound thereof the discourse was interrupted. Then the Blessed One said to the Bhikkhus:

'Now if when a man has sneezed, O Bhikkhus, some one says, "Long life to you," can he live or die on that account?'

'Not so, Lord.'

'You are not, O Bhikkhus, when one has sneezed, to call out, "Long life to you." Whosoever does so, shall be guilty of a dukkata 1.'

Now at that time people said to the Bhikkhus when they sneezed, 'Long life to your reverence!' and the Bhikkhus, fearing to offend, gave no reply. The people murmured, were annoyed, and were indignant, saying, 'How can the Sakya-puttiya Samanas omit to reply when people say, "Long life to your reverence?"'

They told this matter to the Blessed One.

'Laymen, O Bhikkhus, are given to lucky phrases 2. I allow you, O Bhikkhus, to reply, "May you live long!" to laymen who say to you, "Long life to your reverence!"'

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Rhys-Davids & H. Oldenberg footnotes

UKT 140324: original fn do not work offline, because of which I have to put in new ones, but I am still retaining the original to check later.

149:3 Yamelutekul‚. It is possible that this compound should be dissolved into Yamela and Utekula. Compare the word Yamele at verse 35 of the Udd‚na (which stands where a nominative should stand, judging by the form of the other words in the Udd‚na). A comma has there been omitted by misprint after Yamele. 149:3b

fn150:1 150:1 We think that in these words (khandaso ‚ropema) there does lie a reference to the earlier Sanskrit. And this especially for four reasons: firstly, this is required by the antithesis to 'their own dialect;' secondly, the use of the word khandasi in P‚nini, where it always means precisely 'in the Veda-dialect,' requires it; thirdly, it is difficult to understand otherwise the mention of 'Br‚hmans by birth;' and fourthly, this is in accordance with the traditional interpretation of the passage handed down among the Bhikkhus. Buddhaghosa says, khandaso ‚ropem‚ ti Vedam viya sakkata-bh‚s‚ya v‚kan‚-maggam ‚ropema. Sakkata is of course Samskrita. fn150:1b

150:2 See the substance intended at Kullavagga I,1, 3.

151:1 On the historical conclusions which may be drawn from this tradition, see H.O.'s introduction to the text of the Mah‚vagga, pp. xlix and following.

151:2 This is mentioned also in the Assal‚yana Sutta (at the beginning), and in the same terms in the Milinda Panha, p. 10, as one of the branches of learning distinctive of well-educated Br‚hmans. It is condemned among other 'low arts' in the very ancient Mah‚ SÓla, ß 5. (See Rh. D.'s 'Buddhist Suttas from the P‚li; p. 199, and his note on the age of this work, ibid. p. 188.) Among later works, the Nepalese Buddhists refer to it as one of the things with which a Bodhisattva will not condescend to occupy himself (Lotus of the Good Law, ch. xiii, Burnouf's version, p. 168), and in which good disciples will take no pleasure (ibid. p. 280). Buddhaghosa has a note on the passage in the Mah‚ Sib. (quoted by Childers sub voce), which shows that it was understood in his time to be, or rather to have been, a system of casuistry.

151:3 So also in the Ketokhila Sutta 2 (translated in Rh. D.'s 'Buddhist Suttas from the P‚li,' p. 223).

152:1 Tirakkh‚na-vigg‚. Literally, 'brutish, or beastly, wisdom.' These are set out in full in the seven sections of the Mah‚ SÓla (translated in Rh. D.'s 'Buddhist Suttas from the P‚li,' pp. 196-200). As noticed above, the Lok‚yata system is there mentioned (ß 5) as one of them. Learning or teaching these things are forbidden in almost identical terms to the BhikkhunÓs in the BhikkhunÓ-vibhaṅga, P‚kittiyas XLIX and L.

153:1 This story forms the Introductory Story also to the Gagga G‚taka (No. 155 in FausbŲll's edition). On the superstition here condemned, see Dr. Morris's remarks in the 'Contemporary Review' for May, 1881.

153:2 GihÓ bhikkhave maṅgalik‚.


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UKT notes


-- UKT 140324

There were six rogue Buddhist monks {hsŻb~bag~gi} during the time of Buddha. It is said they would commit many kinds of conduct just short of being expelled from the Order. They were finally thrown physically out of established monasteries, but technically they remained Buddhist monks.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C4%81rv%C4%81ka 140324

Cārvāka (Skt: चार्वाक   = च ा र ् व ा क   {saar~wa.ka.}) , aka Lokāyata , is a system of Indian philosophy that assumes various forms of materialism, philosophical skepticism and religious indifference. [1]

Cārvāka is classified as a heterodox Hindu (Nāstika) system. [2] [3] [4] It is characterized as a materialistic and atheistic school of thought. While this branch of Indian philosophy is today not considered to be part of the six orthodox schools of Hindu philosophy, some describe it as an atheistic or materialistic philosophical movement within Hinduism. [5] [6]

Cārvāka emerged as an alternative to the orthodox Hindu pro-Vedic Āstika schools, as well as a philosophical predecessor to subsequent or contemporaneous nāstika philosophies such as Ājīvika, Jainism and Buddhism (the latter two later spinning off into what may be described today as separate religions) in the classical period of Indian philosophy. [7] As opposed to other schools, the first principle of Cārvāka philosophy was the rejection of inference as a means to establish metaphysical truths. [8] [9]

Go back Lokayata-note-b

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